RKFL: APNX: Ganesha is dead, no one plays it anymore !
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Thread: Ganesha is dead, no one plays it anymore !

  1. #1

    Ganesha is dead, no one plays it anymore !

    Hi,

    I am not a HoG pro but the recent change you made to the "Pillar of Life" dramatically changes the way you play a Ganesha. Now, this Leader's power is the weakest of all. Here's why in my experience playing cards.

    If we look at the powers of the Leaders before 0.36.1200, only three Leaders have the power to deploy a unit on the battlefield, Odin, Ah Puch and Ganesha. The latter spends 2 Mana per turn for a unit destroyed in the next turn without the opposing player spending any resources on it. To get rid of "Cursed Warriors" or "Zombies" you have to spend Mana. If, for the sake of balancing, you had also made ephemeral "Cursed Warriors" and "Zombies", I will have understood. But there, no.

    Odin deploys a 1/1 unit making 1 point of damage on the turn it arrives. What an advantage it is! Ah Puch deploys a 1/1 unit that can cause 1 point of damage the next turn. It is less efficient but always more interesting than Ganesha who deploys a motionless 0/1 unit giving 1 hit point randomly at the end of the turn of his arrival. It is usually about the fourth round that the game takes a decisive turn. With ephemeral "Pillars of Life" Ganesh loses time and resources for healing only 1 HP per turn and gives his opponent time to ramp up.

    While on their side, Odin and Ah Puch get a strong synergy with cards like "Coerce" or "Explosion". In fact, "Shard of Bhumi" loses its effectiveness against a "Carrier Behemoth" or a "Stone Guardian" boosted by the "Stone of Gaia". As the other pillars of Ganesha have respective effects that make them major targets, they do not stay long on the battlefield.

    Finally, Ganesha is one of the leaders with the least pantheon card at his disposal (OB 0.36). Zeus owns 41 cards, Ra and Odin 40, Nu Wa 38, followed by Bellone with 37, Ah Puch and Ganesha finish with 30 cards. Remain the 63 Neutral cards available to all to compose a competitive deck. And overall, Ganesha cards are not as powerful as those of other leaders (Zeus and Ra can clean the battlefield for 4 or 5 Mana, etc.).

    But, to be objective and positive, I tried to make a deck with that. The obvious finding, with a Pillar that heals and then dies, is to select Neutral cards playing on it. "Zabin Scout" (3 Mana), "Carrier Behemoth" (4), "Dune Guardian" (5), and "Chieftain" (6) are now a must-have for a Ganesha base, even though units need to be wounded for the healing combo works. Add 2 "Pillars of Creation", 2 "Rama", and some other Hindu or Neutral cards and you get a hard-to-play deck that turns weakness into strength. However, any Weenie Deck (Odin for example) gently peels you for four rounds and then finishes you on the fifth or sixth with heavy artillery (with a runestone of Ire).

    Show me that the new Ganesha rolls correctly against the best decks of the moment (at equal rarity cards with OB 0.36) and I would readily recognize my error analysis.

    Finally, I just watched the video of the next patch note (OB 0.37) and I'm not sure that the new Leader power granted to Ganesha by "Insight" is as powerful as Austin says. More generally, I rather agree with some commentators saying not to create more new cards but to focus on balancing the game, so that all decks are fun to play.

    However, I understand that your primary motivation is financial in order to sustain your business model (more content and power, increase the purchase of Runes). That's also the reason why you have reduced the Favors rewards with OB 0.35. By the way, still no news regarding the Leader Mastery Rewards (justifying the 50% reduction in Favors). With OB 0.37 maybe?

  2. #2
    According the Nash (community manage) in a response to a similar thread on Reddit, Ganesha is performing well still.

    Comparing hero power to each other is problematic, as a weak hero power may be carried by good cards in the pantheon. Ganesha still have the Agni + Aspect of Life combo, still have strong reincarnation cards. I think that your take on Gansha base is slightly missjudged.

    The big downside to Ganesha at the moment is that Bellona is more prelevant right now, which is the best counter to Ganesha. However, despite this I think we'll see a bunch of Ganesha at upcomming tournament at HRX.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by CookieSich View Post
    According the Nash (community manage) in a response to a similar thread on Reddit, Ganesha is performing well still.

    Comparing hero power to each other is problematic, as a weak hero power may be carried by good cards in the pantheon. Ganesha still have the Agni + Aspect of Life combo, still have strong reincarnation cards. I think that your take on Gansha base is slightly missjudged.

    The big downside to Ganesha at the moment is that Bellona is more prelevant right now, which is the best counter to Ganesha. However, despite this I think we'll see a bunch of Ganesha at upcomming tournament at HRX.
    Unfortunately Ganesha got demolished by pretty much everything played against it in general. Their card pool in general ATM is to limited for how fast the game is in the first 3 turns(which is the most important turns of the game)

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Dallaen View Post
    Unfortunately Ganesha got demolished by pretty much everything played against it in general...
    I'm assuming you are refering to HRX. Here's a breakdown: Belgian won as Hindu against Goodfeller. Swidz won against Phazor as Hindu. Potpie won as Hindu against Phazor. Echang lost as Hindu (don't remember against who). Potpie lost as Hindu against Echang.

    This was the broadcasted games - 3-2 for Hindu. While it's not 5-0, your statement "demolished by everything" is false.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by CookieSich View Post
    I'm assuming you are refering to HRX. Here's a breakdown: Belgian won as Hindu against Goodfeller. Swidz won against Phazor as Hindu. Potpie won as Hindu against Phazor. Echang lost as Hindu (don't remember against who). Potpie lost as Hindu against Echang.

    This was the broadcasted games - 3-2 for Hindu. While it's not 5-0, your statement "demolished by everything" is false.
    You would be wrong in your assumption. I meant in general. Tournament statistics mean very little since the bad match ups can be banned out or avoided if picked correctly. Playing on ladder is where we mean.

  6. #6
    We are keeping an eye on the data for Ganesha and if we find that the Hindu Pantheon's statistics show it is under-performing when compared to others, will reconsider the Leader Ability. This came up within our Dev Q&A on 12/15. See the full response here: https://www.reddit.com/r/HandOfTheGo...from_12152017/.

  7. #7
    So I looked at the two videos of the founders' tournament (HRX 2018) and I find that my comment about the Ganesh deck is not as "missjudged" as CookieSich tells me.

    With 16 participants, the number of matches possible was between 24 and 40, depending on the type of victory (3-0 or 3-2). Since you have not shown all games in this tournament, it is difficult to calculate the actual percentage of Ganesh deck played. Of the five games shown, regardless of whether they won or lost, only one played several pillars but no Pillar of Life.

    I grant you that the Ganesh deck is not only based on Pillars, even though it has 8 of the 30 Hindu cards (which is already more than a quarter -26.66%- cards available for this pantheon), not to mention the one created by the Leader. The Agni + Aspect of Life combo is not fundamental to the success of a Ganesh deck.

    I suspect that showing all matches was not possible live, it would have made a much longer video. But after the live broadcast, by cutting the comments of the speakers, you could (and still can) edit a video with all the games played (since an average game lasts 7 to 8 minutes). This video would be even shorter than the one currently posted on your YouTube channel.

    Finally, to bounce back on what JNash says about game data, I hope you do not just watch how many Ganesh decks are played and how many of them win. Since many players are disconnected from them in an explanatory manner, thus giving the victory to their opponents while they had the ascendancy over the game.

  8. #8
    By the way

    Instead of creating a Pillar of Life for 2 mana, give Ganesh the ability to target an allied card on the game board to give him reincarnation. There it would be a power to the extent of Hindu mythology.

  9. #9
    This Pantheon is in some SERIOUS trouble. Of course the bigger issue is just certain Pantheon's opening 2-4 drops and some easy access board clear cards by certain pantheons.

    Honestly there's a lot of factions that need better opening drops in the game to compete. Simply taking generic early drops to attempt to compete with premium god drops that other pantheon's enjoy is poor design. Not to mention most of the generics are simply worse than the god equivalents.

  10. #10
    I am not sure if bugged but my Pillars of Life healed for 2, 1 at the end of the turn and 1 when it got destroyed at the start of the turn.
    Last edited by Guza; 01-25-2018 at 12:49 AM.

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